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December 21, 2006, 04:18:13 PM
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Offline rb

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May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
« on: December 21, 2006, 04:18:13 PM »
Note: The following posts were made on Peter's first JMS website.

Author: Scarlett
Date: May 18, 2006
    Hi All,

    I have just learned that the founding pastor of American Providence has left. I am still on a Providence e-mail list that announced his departure. I know this pastor personally. He came to the U.S. by Jungs command in the mid 1980s to be the first missionary to the U.S. He was personally responsible for making American Providence. I even studied under him. He was a completely dedicated follower of Jung and defended him at every turn. It is a bit strange for me to hear that he has left, but also a great joy that even he has seen through all the muck. It just shows that there is hope for others.

    Here is one current ministers' take on the situation in an email he sent to his church. And his effort to silence and cover things up... (I have deleted the pastors name out of respect for him)

    "Good afternoon to you all. My prayer is that you are having a wonderful day so far. There are a few things that we need to discuss. Most of you, if not all, by now have heard of Pastor ______ departure form our beloved Providence. He is sending out an email to the American Providence members that he knows with the intentions of trying to convince you that you are going down the wrong path by following our beloved R.
    If you have received his email, do not respond to it. After reading it, just delete it. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. We all have a great appreciation for all the good that Pastor _______ has done for AP. But now that he has departed from the will of God that we all came to realize through the words of the times, keep you faith centered on God, and the One that is sent in this time period."

Author: Peter
Date: May 18, 2006
    Wow that's one very interesting letter.
    The poor guy is about to discover the conditional nature of his JMS friendships.
    Being an outcast after founding the cult in the US, that's got to hurt.

    I'd like to talk to him....Scarlet, how about sending me his email?

Author: rb
Date: May 18, 2006
    "If you have received his email, do not respond to it. After reading it, just delete it."
    Words like this always make me wonder: what is he scared of? If whoever wrote that really believed that Jung was the messiah then he'd let, even encourage, people to investigate as he would know that the facts would only reveal the truth for what it is, that Jung is the messiah. (This is not the truth, but in his mind, if he believed it, this is how he would think.) Yet consistently when I see people in cult type environments they act like deep down they don't really believe what they say. But they suppress it, they suppress independent thought, they suppress their true self.

    So any members that may be viewing this forum and feeling guilty for it: ask yourself, what are you scared of? If Jung really is the messiah then looking at the facts will only reinforce it. But if Jung is not the messiah, then you would be better off to accept it and work on rebuilding your life.

    Thanks for sharing that Scarlett. Hopefully he can post something on this forum, share his story. I'm sure that would help JMS members.

Author: ty
Date: May 19, 2006
    What's his name?
    Do you know that a person called PJ is responsible for all the English translations?
    He's probably the biggest figure, and I would like to see him leave.

Author: Scarlett
Date: May 19, 2006
    No, it is not PJ or Pastor John. He is probably the most influential American Providence Leader right now but he was trained by this Pastor that left. You can contact me offline

        [email protected] to get his name if you'd like. I would rather it not be posted to protect
        his privacy.

    Maybe the departure of his mentor will knock some sense into PJ. Probably not, but who knows. It has happened before.

    -Scarlett

Author: ty
Date: May 19, 2006

    If the pastor who left Providence was such an important figure, I suppose that most people already know who he is. Since I left Providence, I don't really care who he is. I just hope that this pastor would show some proofs and inside infos that may encourage people to leave Providence.

    He's the one who contributed so much to JMS organizations, and now he just wants to forget everything and leave quietly?

    Legal or not, spread the words.

    I would like to see the original e-mail.

    Any comments or reply to this address:

        [email protected]

Author: smg
Date: May 21, 2006
    This must have been Paul Kim. I was the first American teenager evangelized into the church a ways back. My Uncle, who evangelized me, was a Pastor in the church and told me what was happening in the church. When i found out I was crushed. That was awhile ago but it still is there always in the back of my mind. Whats sad is that even after I left this church I had talked to people like Greg Miller, Ralph Aguilar and Scott Patton. I even talked with Paul Kim and they then had to explain to me that in order to be saved as a woman you must fulfill a sexual sort of cleansing through the Messiah. It was because woman caused the fall of man that they must be redeemed through a man. Now the guy who told me to stay is leaving after having led so many people into that religion.
    I just saw a video on this site that showed me exactly what I was told. A pastor told me himself that he knows women that have had sex with Jung. It is crazy that after all this time they are still deceiving these people who are innocent.

    I still believe in God but its hard to go back to the Bible. There is so much doubt that is there and its a touchy subject for me. I still feel called to God but sometimes there is always that what if Providence was the truth and it got all messed up by men. The word was great and its just hard to see that something you believed in so much is now a stumbling block.

    I wish I could go back to where I was before that church. To when I loved God because I wanted to and because I felt God around me loving me. Now theres doubt that its just my imagination. I hope in the end I can find my way back to that place I was.

Author: Scarlett
Date: May 21, 2006
    Hi SMG,

    I knew Scott, Ralph, Steve, etc. way back when I joined in the early 1990s. I believe I may even have communicated with you by e-mail. More than 95 percent of the original leadership has left. I also went through an emotional roller-coaster as I left. I was raised a Christian before my encounter with Providence. It took me a while to reconcile what I had been through with my relationship with God. I truly believe this experience happened to me for a reason. I now feel that God is directing me to support in some way those who have been scared by this experience. And to show them the true God of unconditional love.

    One book that was key to my healing process was
"Leaving the Saints: How I left the Mormons and found God." It tells of one woman's journey out of Mormonism, the religion she was raised in. There were so many parallels to her experience and mine in Providence, that it finally gave me the courage to leave and find my way back to the true God of unconditional love. It has been a truly freeing experience.

Please contact me offline. I would love to try to connect with those in America who have left. The sad thing is that when a person leaves, he loses touch with the very people who may be the biggest support for him in the future.[/list]

        My email is [email protected]

        All the best,
        Scarlett

Author: YO
Date: Aug 12, 2006
    Is PJ a Korean dude with the last name LEE? If the guy who left is PAUL Kim, this is a big deal due to the fact that i know he was the first one to get married in Providence. He was the first one that JMS arranged a marriage for. Is it him?

Author: COOL
Date: Aug 12, 2006
    I have a question for you SMG. First of all, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Second, did Paul really utter those words to you? Wow, I kinda knew him not too long ago, and he seemed like a bigot to me at the time. If he told you that it must be true that JMS really those things. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author: COOL
Date: Aug 12, 2006
    If women have to go through some sort of sexual cleansing to be purified, does that mean he sleeps with every woman in Providence? From what I can tell it has to a certain type of girl, and has to meet his norm. So, I conjecture he discriminates against not so good looking girls. I guess you have to be beautiful to be saved in this group.

Author: Peter
Date: Aug 12, 2006
    Aug 12, 2006, 8:56am, YO wrote:
Quote from: Yo
Is PJ a Korean dude with the last name LEE? If the guy who left is PAUL Kim, this is a big deal due to the fact that i know he was the first one to get married in Providence. He was the first one that JMS arranged a marriage for. Is it him?

PJ's name is Ho Myung Lee. He does all the English translations of Jeong's speeches. He's been described as "Jeong's right hand man in America".

I don't know anything about the senior guy that left.
It seems like its this Paul Kim guy, but I don't know anything about him other than what's been written here in this thread.[/list]

Author: Peter
Date: Aug 12, 2006
    Quote
    Aug 12, 2006, 9:12am, HEY wrote:
    If women have to go through some sort of sexual cleansing to be purified, does that mean he sleeps with every woman in Providence? From what I can tell it has to a certain type of girl, and has to meet his norm. So, I conjecture he discriminates against not so good looking girls. I guess you have to be beautiful to be saved in this group.

    All the girls I have met claim he is a virgin. Certainly Jeong claims that to most of his cult.
    I'd guess around 95%, maybe more of cult members believe that lie.

    So, no he doesn't sleep with every woman in his cult. It seems only a small percentage of female members enter the next level and are "saved."

    He relies on the non-saved people who think he's a virgin and the Messiah, because they help to mask the true nature of the cult by giving it a very pleasant and nice public face. They also work incredibly hard for him; free labor for Jeong. A virtual army of people world-wide helping to bring Jeong new chicks.

    Absolutely you have to beautiful to be saved. The first event I went to, my God, it was like a Paris fashion show!

    Most Providence events world wide are designed to bring beautiful women to Jeong's cult.
    Today there is an international modelling contest on at the cult's base in Korea.
    Cheer events, modelling events, and sport events also help to bring fit young women to the cult.

    There's even a specific formula, some height to weight ratio, that Jeong wants his female member to reach. And a minimum height[/list]

    Author: SUP folks
    Date: Aug 12, 2006
      I wonder what induced him to finally leave? It appears that he was a dedicated follower of JMS until at least the year 2005. Something must've happened. Does anyone know why other than the most obvious reasons? keep in mind that this guy was the founder of American providence.

    Author: SUP folks
    Date: Aug 12, 2006
      Does anyone here know what kind of email this paul dude sent to MSs?

    Author: Peter
    Date: Aug 12, 2006
      I haven't seen it.

    December 24, 2006, 10:44:43 AM
    Reply #1

    Offline Peter

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #1 on: December 24, 2006, 10:44:43 AM »
    Thanks for transfering all that rb.
    I just read it again and had forgotten what astounding posts it contained.


    February 06, 2007, 02:32:29 PM
    Reply #2

    Offline pokerstarz

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #2 on: February 06, 2007, 02:32:29 PM »
    The fact is that Paul Kim left JMS in 2000 and he just now!!! announced that they no longer follow JMS!!!!!!


    April 03, 2007, 07:16:13 AM
    Reply #3

    Offline Peter

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 07:16:13 AM »
    I just received the letter Paul Kim sent from another former member, thank you:

    Resignation Letter from Paul Kim, former Amercan leader and founder:
    Quote
    Dear Ms,

    I would like to inform you that I'm leaving the JMS providence. Really it is very difficult for me to decide to quit working at the JMS providence. However, I am firmly determined to get out of the JMS, according to the will of God. This reminds me of the same situation as I joined the JMS after making a decision to part from the Christianity 23 years ago. I have learned and realized from Jung, Myung Suk SSN a lot of many good things with which Christianity could not have provided me. I'm sure that Jung SSN has been sent from the God for this time period. But he has crooked the way of the heavenly providence, through going along the wrong direction and through misunderstanding-actually he follows the wrong interpretation- the true revelation from the God. At the present time, as one of earlier followers who devoted themselves to SSN, I repent that I have not accompanied and directed him properly since I met him 23 years ago. Even I have sinned against the God, by walking along the wrong way as a corrupted pastor. I'm lamenting bitterly these things.

    Whenever we think of SSN, we just believe that whatever he has done is always right. Is it true, do you think? Jung SSN has human nature as well as divine nature. We heard many times in his message that he was rebuked by Jesus and God because he was wrong. We should exactly know SSN himself. That's why we can run God's providence correctly with him because providence comes from God not a human being.

    I'm sure that the women's problem of SSN is not the will of God. Never those are the heavenly direction. Right now I couldn't express publicly the real facts of SSN's scandals because those are too lewd for us to refer them in both spoken and written. I'd not want to hide those facts anymore from all of us as well as the almighty living God. In the past, surely, I had strong belief in which SSN's behavior on the above women could be induced from the God's will. After having realized the reasonable principle of God, I deeply understand that I made a mistake-what I regarded SSN's touching girls as a necessary process of salvation. I really want to discuss this issue thoroughly if you would like to do any time with your open mind, declaring that such problem will be solved only to know the reasonable principle of God.

    At this point, I confess that I acknowledge the JMS providence, still. I'm not denying the JMS itself. (One more time, I am not a Anti-JMS.) I still believe that Jung SSN as well as Rev. Moon is the one who was sent by God. However, I clarify that I will run God's providence continuously in the different way and I am not going to join in the unification church. I would like to recommend you to search for the Unification Church . (The early members of JMS providence-from 1980 to 1984- had already learned about the Unification Church completely. Jung SSN had allowed us to study 'Divine Principle' and join its various activities.) Consequently, we should find out how our past providence has made its wrong way and what wrongdoing our present providence has done since then. If you ask unification church member about JMS they don't know their future providence, JMS because they don't know about their past history. Unification church and JMS could not be unified according to God's will because they don't know the flow of God's providence. It was a big mistake in the God's providence.

    The providence of JMS will continue as the providence of Judaism,

    Christianity and Unification Church has continued in this world with their own respective history. But we should study how the God's providence has developed from the past to the present in order to run correctly before the God of the providence.

    I hope you ponder and pray whether this JMS providence you have chosen is going to right direction or not. Never fail to depend on your reasonable principle from the God to ascertain where you should be at this time. I had a personal opportunity to do that a few years ago. The news that the father of ex MS, Mr. Kim Do-Hyung who aggressively and vehemently has defied against the JMS fell a victim to terrorism served me as a momentum to realize that this JMS lost its direction. Even though many early devoted, passionate members of the JMS providence left SSN in 1999, I have remained in this providence, receiving graceful messages from SSN. However, when I heard that Mr. Kim's father was attacked by the present JMS leaders, I was forced to ponder thoroughly who I was, reflecting on myself. It has happened since I realized that it was I and all of JMS who attacked the father with the cruel terrorism. Since then I earnestly started to review my faith and JMS. Fortunately, God has guided me to know, to check, and to study the Bible and the God's providence until now. As a result of them I declare to make a decision on leaving JMS.

    I do not want you to leave JMS at all because it is good if you grow and receive God's grace in JMS. You might judge me according to your thought as you see, hear, and feel. I ask you to respect my decision as I will do your faith and thought. I believe that God gives me the free will to determine whether I would set my faith on the JMS or not. God gives us our own inalienable free will or natural right. I would like to talk to you any time if you want to know more why I have made such a decision. It is time to say Good Bye

    Peace be with you.

    In God, Paul Kim
    The attack on the father of Kim Do-hyung, the founder of the anti-JMS NGO Exodus, is documented here.

    April 05, 2007, 07:34:09 PM
    Reply #4

    Offline WasNotWas

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #4 on: April 05, 2007, 07:34:09 PM »
    Wow - another amazing document. It's really interesting that, just like J's letter I posted here, he doesn't disavow the teachings themselves, just the way they've been realised. Again, would love to know if this is a temporary phase, if it's just belief in the teachings is the most deeply engrained, or if these guys are still thinking that Providence has something worthwhile to teach the world several years down the line...

    Thank you so much to whoever mailed this to Peter. Apart from anything else, it does confirm that the leaders in Providence (or some of them) do know what Jung gets up to, and do think that the teachings allow it.

    April 08, 2007, 01:29:32 AM
    Reply #5

    Offline rb

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #5 on: April 08, 2007, 01:29:32 AM »
    I suspect, most of the time, they eventually see through all of it. I've certainly talked to/found some former cult members (including of Providence) who I consider fully recovered. However, it doesn't appear that uncommon, e.g. apparently some former Branch Davidians are still illusioned, even now.

    I think the most important thing is that the process isn't magical. You can't move from one world to another if only one world exists. For a person with no concept of reality outside Providence they cannot automatically grasp real reality once independent thought begins to reach up and cause their perceived (cult) reality to crumble. This would be especially hard when "waking up" to the truth means both internal and external instability (e.g. both internal questions such as "who am I/what is right/what is true" and external problems such as having to find a new place to live, new friends/support base, new job, new goals etc.) Since it takes time to build a new world, both internally and externally (again, internally meaning their personal beliefs and morals and similar things, externally meaning their friends, family, job, etc.) it seems absolutely necessary to keep some of the old world solid at least for a while to escape almost complete mental instability which would otherwise occur.

    October 05, 2007, 10:48:55 AM
    Reply #6

    Offline scarlett

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 10:48:55 AM »
    I just read Pastor Paul's resignation letter again and I realized how much courage it took for him to lay his reputation on the line for so many that followed him and counseled with him in the U.S. Another ironic matter is that even he didn't have the power to break the American providence structure alone. But as more and more leaders leave, hopefully it will trickle down to the members.

    I wish I knew where he is now. Would love to talk with him. Who knows. Maybe he has found this board. If you have Paul, please PM me.  :)

    March 11, 2009, 12:31:25 PM
    Reply #7

    Offline scarlett

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 12:31:25 PM »
    Wow - another amazing document. It's really interesting that, just like J's letter I posted here, he doesn't disavow the teachings themselves, just the way they've been realised. Again, would love to know if this is a temporary phase, if it's just belief in the teachings is the most deeply engrained, or if these guys are still thinking that Providence has something worthwhile to teach the world several years down the line...

    Thank you so much to whoever mailed this to Peter. Apart from anything else, it does confirm that the leaders in Providence (or some of them) do know what Jung gets up to, and do think that the teachings allow it.

    I just read over this letter again in refernce to Pete's question to Ralph as to whether or not he read Pastor Kim's resignation letter. As for not disavowing the teachings of providence themselves...I can speak from personal experience. I believe that there are many good teachings being taught in providence as with other religions. Basically all religions promote love, truth, morality, faith, self-realization. Some of the teachings in providence still come to mind every once in a while. It's the other stuff that clouds the waters that one eventually leaves behind and chalks up to experience.

    March 12, 2009, 01:56:55 AM
    Reply #8

    Offline WasNotWas

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #8 on: March 12, 2009, 01:56:55 AM »
    I was talking particularly about passages such as the following:
    Quote
    I still believe that Jung SSN as well as Rev. Moon is the one who was sent by God. However, I clarify that I will run God's providence continuously in the different way and I am not going to join in the unification church. I would like to recommend you to search for the Unification Church . (The early members of JMS providence-from 1980 to 1984- had already learned about the Unification Church completely. Jung SSN had allowed us to study 'Divine Principle' and join its various activities.) Consequently, we should find out how our past providence has made its wrong way and what wrongdoing our present providence has done since then. If you ask unification church member about JMS they don't know their future providence, JMS because they don't know about their past history. Unification church and JMS could not be unified according to God's will because they don't know the flow of God's providence. It was a big mistake in the God's providence.

    The language is a bit confused, but he clearly still believes that the progression from Moon to JMS was divinely ordained in quite a interventionist fashion - Jung was sent by God, but became misguided. I imagine that is some way from where you now stand Scarlett!

    As I said to Ralph, I wouldn't pretend to be very familiar with everything that Providence teaches, but there must be a lot that is good & worthwhile in it. There is a generally agreement that most members are very nice people, most of the time. I guess being able to respond to that which seems divinely inspired, or insightful in a religion, and to disregard the rest is a very healthy attitude to take.
    Quote
    I believe that God gives me the free will to determine whether I would set my faith on the JMS or not. God gives us our own inalienable free will or natural right
    Seems like a pretty solid first principle to start from - but I don't think that Paul had a departure from the belief that all of the teaching was the truth at the point he wrote this letter. I guess I'd be interested to read a letter from the point at which he did make that step....


    .......or your book Scarlett   :D

    March 12, 2009, 12:47:12 PM
    Reply #9

    Offline scarlett

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 12:47:12 PM »
    Ah yes, the book. I haven't forgotten. It is actually forming in my head right now. Lot's to sift through.

    I suspect that Paul Kim would have a different tone to his letter now after almost three years. Generally, the more time away from the group the more one sees that it is not absolutely divinely inspired and one has a change of viewpoint on the group and the persona  of Jung.

    I would be interested to hear what he thinks of JMS now, especially after the verdicts.

    March 16, 2009, 02:33:23 PM
    Reply #10

    Offline Michele

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 02:33:23 PM »
    So what exactly happened with JMS.  How did he manage to coerce those girls to sleep with him?  Were others present when he did this?  What are Providence people doing now that there leader is locked up?  I've realized that justice is always dealt to bad people even if they try their best to escape it.  Karma will always get them.  It's a universal principal of God. 

    March 16, 2009, 11:14:38 PM
    Reply #11

    Offline Peter

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 11:14:38 PM »
    So what exactly happened with JMS.  How did he manage to coerce those girls to sleep with him?  Were others present when he did this? 
    Hi Michele,

    Just to answer that very quickly, basically he had a whole organization helping him commit his crimes. From grassroots members funding his flight from justice enabling him to rape more, to members in Korea sending him photos of possible victims with phone numbers included, to women working to "prep" the girls before the rape and to threaten them afterwards. This wasn't one man committing rape, it was a whole organization working in concert. When the rapes and sexual assaults occurred, yes, there were people very nearby, and mostly other women as unbelievable as that sounds.
    This article here describes what happens prior to a sexual assault, and that's consistent with numerous other reports.

    I'm astounded others haven't been charged. He had a lot of accomplices.

    How did he coerce them? Well it was a long process of indoctrinating them to believe he was the messiah, and indoctrinating them with his "be a lover of God" study courses.
    That served to lower their defences. He also maintained he was a virgin, that also would have shielded the girls from concerns about any kind of sexual assault.
    The rapes he was convicted of were committed in China and the victims were Korean. So you can imagine girls far from friends and family, surrounded by cult members, expecting to literally meet god. They would have had years of indoctrination behind them telling them to obey this man or risking physical death and an eternity in hell. When they realized they were about to be raped, I can't imagine what they could have done - being miles from home, and surrounded by fanatical believers who 100% thought that raping these girls was Jeong's mission from god.


    Photo of teenage members (one aged 16) sent to Jeong while he was a fugitive in China. You can see they have a standard form to use when sending photos of teenage girls in their underwear.
    Evidence of  a bureaucracy at work aiding Jeong. Someone actually sat down and designed a form for such a use, can you believe that??


    Quote
    What are Providence people doing now that there leader is locked up?
    I didn't expect much to change, Their leader has been underground since 1999, so him being in jail really isn't that much of a change. Although I wonder if there are followers hatching plans for a replacement messiah to continue god's work of raping teenagers.
    A few people have reported some changes. I can't say they sound for the better. There does seem to be greater emphasis placed on the imminent end of the world, by way of this "rapture" nonsense.

    March 17, 2009, 03:07:04 PM
    Reply #12

    Offline Michele

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #12 on: March 17, 2009, 03:07:04 PM »
    Hey,
    Wow! That's very shocking!  I can't believe someone created those cards to send to him.  What the Hell!  Why would he need to see them in lingerie.  That makes no sense to me.  Why would the men close to Jung think it's ok for him to have sex with those women.  How does his dick save their soul? 

    Anyways, I was in Providence for a while in the U.S.A.  Someone told me that "he's the Messiah", but I never believed it.  I never met Jung as he was always in another country.  So I guess it's a good thing.  But if he would have tried to touch me, I would have probably kicked his ass even if people were around.

    I only got into the group because of G.A.C.P.  I got recruited through soccer and had fun times.  We played a lot of fun group games like "Mafia." It's a kind of card game, which is really fun. 

    Once they got me in the church, soccer stopped, and they were much more interested in me learning the lessons.  I actually thought the whole group was rather helpful to me as it got me out of an extremely abusive relationship with coincidently a Korean man living in the U.S.  I think he's a little crazier than Jung.

    But anyways, I left after this married woman in Providence got jealous cause her husband was attracted to me.  I definitely didn't want anything to do with him as he's married and not my type at all.  She snapped at me, and then I decided to check out some of the stuff on the internet about Providence and GACP and Jung Myung Seok.  Boy, was I surprised when I found out.  I left immediately afterwards. 

    I actually live several blocks from the church, and they still have services.  I'm facebook friends with several of the people, but I rarely talk to them.  I don't know why they still hold on to Jung.  The group is great though in my city.  They were really nice people except for that one woman I mentioned earlier.  And one of the pastor's hit on me, but I shut him down and got the hell out of there.

    That whole experience was actually a fun time while it lasted.  :)

    March 17, 2009, 11:03:09 PM
    Reply #13

    Offline Peter

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #13 on: March 17, 2009, 11:03:09 PM »
    And one of the pastor's hit on me
    I'd love to know which one!
    Glad you had some interesting experiences.
    If they don't suck you in, cults can be an enormous source of entertainment!

    April 02, 2009, 05:53:54 PM
    Reply #14

    Offline bdiego

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    Re: May 2006: American Founding Pastor leaves JMS
    « Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 05:53:54 PM »
    Ah yes, the book. I haven't forgotten. It is actually forming in my head right now. Lot's to sift through.

    I suspect that Paul Kim would have a different tone to his letter now after almost three years. Generally, the more time away from the group the more one sees that it is not absolutely divinely inspired and one has a change of viewpoint on the group and the persona  of Jung.

    I would be interested to hear what he thinks of JMS now, especially after the verdicts.


    Well I think Paul wanted to let people save face, because he knew most of the remaining JMS members would eventually catch on and leave as well.  It's hard to tell your friends and followers that they need to repent too, better to stretch the truth and say "I realized JMS is an evil rapist, but you guys are totally okay for following him for now."  People do this all the time - breakups, cancelled appointments, etc..

    No need to be so blunt and say "OMG JMS is an evil rapist, you guys gotta get out".  Won't work and will just make them defensive and hurt a lot of feelings.

    This is the very essence of saving face in Asian culture.