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Author Topic: I use to attend this church  (Read 29336 times)

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August 09, 2014, 01:15:59 AM
Reply #60

Offline oopark

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2014, 01:15:59 AM »

Your group created and paid for the whole circus.

Are you talking about the church or the businesses? You make it sound like the church paid for it. I doubt you even care though as you probably have no idea how they are different.

AHAE's reputation as an artist was paid for. The exhibitions didn't stem from his art, they stemmed from his wallet. I can easily imagine people seeing an exhibition at the Louvre and then buying souvenirs. AHAE "borrowed" the legitimacy of the Louvre and smothered himself in it.

That is probably your own opinion or of that who hates the Louvre. Did he also "buy access" to the Alinari National Museum of Photography or was Prince Charles paid to host Ahae's photos exhibited? You quickly dismiss the value of the photos saying that his reputation was "bought" and can "easily imagine people buying souvenirs at the Louvre or Versailles", but if you think it more closely, if they wanted to buy souvenirs, they would've went to the Louvre gift shop to do so. Why would they buy items from a no-name asian photographer who doesn't have a face when they can have much more valuable and famous items available within a walking's distance? It's clearly from the photos. Would the Louvre's reputation have influence over their purchase? Let me ask you a question... when you visit the Louvre, do you buy a no name artist's work because the Louvre hosts it? You buy the artist's work because you enjoyed it so much as to want to keep it. What makes it so difficult to accept a simple fact that there is value to the photos?


In regards to Mr. Yoo and family refusing to show up, I already explained to you what happened in 1991. Mr. Yoo appeared confidently upon the prosecutor's request during the height of the Odaeyang incident. What happened? Did they charge him for the Odaeyang deaths? No, but they sure did make it look that way and that misconception still lives today. He was also convicted for a crime he did not commit. Why would you repeat the same thing again according to their plans?

If he went into investigation the same way, what would the people think? He would've been severely blamed for the accident much more viciously than what you think now and the government probably would've gotten away and covered up the whole ferry issue as well.

What do we have left? Angry victims' families who have not been answered of the true cause of the accident.

Really, I find no merit with these pointless arguments with you...

August 09, 2014, 06:30:43 AM
Reply #61

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2014, 06:30:43 AM »
That would be Yoo in the 1990s^.
JudgeNot, I would be happy to answer your question but Iím afraid I donít know anything about the retirement home plans you mentioned. Can you provide more details? I can possibly ask around but not sure how long this would take. Whether or not that article is an accurate account, itís an unfortunate thing to have such articles related to us posted in the news like that.

However, I would like to point out a few things. Why is it that you think the funds that lady gave were donations? The article says it was an investment in a building "the church" was building but I don't think you can "invest" in a church for a personal return. If it was a pure donation, I don't think it would be appropriate to expect to have it returned, either. I do not know how funds were raised for that project, but I am sure if it was a plan for a retirement home or complex, that lady probably invested her funds into the company organizing it for her own benefits.

I don't know if announcements were made like that in church, but let's say it was... is the church supposed to be responsible for that? Let's say there was an announcement for an English camp during a meeting. A kid applied and got hurt while participating in the camp. Is that the churchís responsibility even though the church had nothing to do with the camp itself? Should they be liable when all that took place was an introduction? Although church members may have been involved, please do not blame it on the church for something the church has no control over. Church members make many mistakes as human beings and there are also people (both amongst and not amongst church members) with not-so-good intentions as in any other group of humans.

If a church-related company did not pay someone back for money they borrowed or for money received in return for investment, I think they should be completely responsible for any and all mismanagement of that funds. They should be held accountable according to the laws laid out by the country they are doing business in. However, I do not think that responsibility should go beyond the scope of that company unless there is a valid reason for it to be so. Asking the church or perhaps Mr. Yoo to be responsible just does not seem appropriate nor logical to me. I guess it is an easy tendency for people to think that way if things do not go the way they want or had intended. In the case of the retirement home do you have specific details on the method of raising funds, who was involved, exactly what happened in the end? Please share as many details as possible. Without specific details and evidence- like many things in a forum such as this- it just ends up in conjecture.

If you are truly concerned about the church's responsibility and accountability, whether it is large or small, talk to the people who are responsible for that concern and ask and suggest what can be done to make it better. If you had openly raised concerns before, for example, in the middle of a fund raise for a new church property, it is very likely that your concerns would have been allayed at that time (unless, perhaps it is severe enough to cancel the project) while the fund raising is actively running to achieve that goal.

Still, if you have concerns, take it to someone directly responsible and get answers for all your questions. Have you done this before or were you just talking along with other like-minded people who do not know the exact details of the project? I am a person who tends to challenge and question a lot myself, but I have not encountered anything major enough to disapprove an important church decision - I cannot explain about all company decisions though, as I am not involved with any, but still, I have always been willing to point out anything that might be a concern.

I donít expect everyone to be 100% in approval of everything that is done so if you do not think it is in your best interests, you have all the freedom you have not to participate in it. You also have the freedom to oppose it and voice it. You know we do not kick people out or remove members away from us just because you had or have an opposite voice or view. If you have a valid concern, please do voice it and get it cleared. Unfortunately, some people seem to find it more interesting talking in the back with their own conclusions based on guesses and small bits or unconfirmed information - defying the purpose of the fellowship that we share.

Hope this helps.


Mr. Park,

I remember when a korean moim missionary came to the state I live in back in 2003 or 2004 . He was talking about how the people should donate money and he started singing hymns which was totally off base with what the church normally does. This was at the end of his stay he did this he passed around the collection plate. I ripped the local moim leadership how this wasn't biblical. They did apologize and state it wouldn't happen again. I mentioned these types of things as well as why HK was dressed in such expensive clothes, why him and his crew were driving around in range rovers at highland springs. I was brushed off like "my spirit" wasn't right. How could they judge my personal spiritual well being when I'm just pointing out obvious flaws that outsiders/insiders could take as not biblical. The thing about the "medical center" is definitely out there in some archived footage. Because our local moim watched a freaking dvd on it like it was a infomercial. This was around 2006-2007. THE MOIM WAS ADVERTISING TO MEMBERS TO BUY INTO THIS. So all the members who did and lost money why weren't they paid back? That's what upsets me about Mr. Yoo and his family. They enrich themselves and live a life of luxury while the moim suffers for their sins. He was a coward. He should have faced the government beast if he really was doing God's will he would have came out ok in the end or would have died a good christian soldier. Now he's just getting pissed on by everyone and anyone because he made a very crucial mistake of not turning himself in. Same with HK. It's unbelievable the charade the church goes through to please the Yoo family.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 09, 2014, 12:39:29 PM
Reply #62

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2014, 12:39:29 PM »
Quote
Are you talking about the church or the businesses? You make it sound like the church paid for it. I doubt you even care though as you probably have no idea how they are different.

According to the NY Times article and other things I have heard privately, the church sure paid some of the cost. Is there really a difference between companies controlled by Yoo and the church? They were all entities controlled by him.

Quote
Why would they buy items from a no-name asian photographer who doesn't have a face when they can have much more valuable and famous items available within a walking's distance? It's clearly from the photos. Would the Louvre's reputation have influence over their purchase? Let me ask you a question... when you visit the Louvre, do you buy a no name artist's work because the Louvre hosts it?

Some people likes the photos. So what? Would they have bought them if AHAE Inc. hadn't deliberately withheld AHAE's real name and criminal past? Yes people would buy a "no-name" artist's work because it is hosted at The Louvre. Although I would be curious to learn how many other unknown artists got one of their first breaks at The Louvre. You can't be unaware of The Louvre's reputation. That was precisely why AHAE In. decided to involve The Louvre in the scam. The obvious hope was that The Louvre's reputation and prestige would rub off on the photos. Reputation by association.

Again, it's really quite simple, AHAE Inc, did buy off the Louvre. It's not about hating the Louvre. It's about criticizing their actions in selling exhibition spaces to a certain "no-name" photographer who later turned out to be a convicted fraudster. Egg on face. Did Michael Nyman know he was dedicating his 6th Symphony to Yoo Byeung-eun? His management seems to be in panic mode, so I guess he didn't.

Quote
In regards to Mr. Yoo and family refusing to show up, I already explained to you what happened in 1991. Mr. Yoo appeared confidently upon the prosecutor's request during the height of the Odaeyang incident. What happened? Did they charge him for the Odaeyang deaths? No, but they sure did make it look that way and that misconception still lives today. He was also convicted for a crime he did not commit. Why would you repeat the same thing again according to their plans?

Because turning himself in would have at least saved those that were arrested for helping him while a fugitive. Was he so utterly uncaring about them? Pawns to be used. You'd expect more from a guy who isn't a cult leader, and exactly those actions from a man who is.
Becoming a fugitive may be a good idea in movies like The Fugitive, but in real life, it's never a good idea. And in this case, it was a decision that cost Yoo his life and the freedom of some of his followers. Still think it was the right move? If you know where Keith Yoo is, the biggest favor you can do for him is to notify the FBI.

Quote
Really, I find no merit with these pointless arguments with you...
Well I certainly enjoy reading your "justifications" and I enjoy responding to them. I agree it can seem pointless at times, but I don't think it is pointless. Perhaps others are enjoying reading our exchanges and perhaps learning something from our exchanges. However, I do think that questions from former members are more pertinent and more important, so perhaps your time would be better spent responding to their questions, in particular Judge's recent questions which he repeated in the above post because he didn't get a response the first time he posted them.

August 09, 2014, 01:46:14 PM
Reply #63

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2014, 01:46:14 PM »
...Because our local moim watched a freaking dvd on it like it was a infomercial. ... They enrich themselves and live a life of luxury while the moim suffers for their sins.

Just to confirm, "moim" (모임) means "congregation". That is the meaning used by the group, right? Another meaning is "meeting/gathering".


August 12, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Reply #64

Offline silenttoolong

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2014, 12:59:34 PM »
This cracks me up. I love how Mr. Yoo could not have possibly done any wrong as a man of god, yet he fled the authorities like a common criminal. If he were truly a man of God, and it's all God's will as he was so often quick to quote when promoting his businesses in the church, why run? If it's God's will, why not face the authorities?

August 15, 2014, 07:08:17 PM
Reply #65

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2014, 07:08:17 PM »
You also claimed that we cast out demons and I explained that Pastor Kwon mentioned his experience to ridicule and refute people who claim having "special powers" to do so.

I didn't say your group casts out demons. I said that your founder claimed he had cast out demons and said that the best way to do so was to keep the person sleep deprived. Here's the relevant section as well as the Yuri Geller nonsense. And Kwon, in this segment at least, sure isn't ridiculing people who have special powers. He seems quite taken with Yuri Geller's scam. Quite a few times now you've twisted my words. I'm not sure whether that's deliberate or you simply aren't paying attention. I hope it wasn't nonsense like this that led you to join.

Casting Out Demons and Yuri Geller's Psychic Powers