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July 31, 2014, 11:51:44 PM
Reply #30

Offline Chocobo

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2014, 11:51:44 PM »
If you do not care whether the goal is religious or not, then I take it that you are against asceticism in religion. For example, in Hindu festivals, worshipers puncture their own bodies with steel needles and use them to carry god's statues. There are also more extreme cases like oaths to keep silent, to sit on spikes, etc. From common sense, judging the actions alone, these practices are tortures. I think they are more serious than sleep deprivation. They are all cultic evidence in your definition and need to be criticized, I suppose?

August 01, 2014, 12:20:13 AM
Reply #31

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2014, 12:20:13 AM »
There are also more extreme cases like oaths to keep silent, to sit on spikes, etc. From common sense, judging the actions alone, these practices are tortures. I think they are more serious than sleep deprivation. They are all cultic evidence in your definition and need to be criticized, I suppose?

Well ten days of sleep deprivation is quite serious, but in cultic groups it isn't just sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation is just one tool among many that are used together to gain compliance and obedience. I'm not sure if self harm is considered torture. Most (if not all) definitions describe torture as being inflicted on a person by another to gain compliance, force a change of opinion, gain a confession, etc.

Regarding the other actions, that depends on the goals of the organisation, if there is an organization behind those actions. Like nutty beliefs, nutty actions aren't necessarily cultic, but they are often present in cultic groups.

I think sitting on spikes is something worthy of criticism or perhaps mockery is more appropriate. That may not be cultic, but surely painful^. Vow of silence? If someone enjoys not talking, go for it. If someone took a vow of silence because a criminal cult intent on exploiting them convinced them to, well that's a different situation. Intention is the key here. I would have thought that obvious?

August 01, 2014, 12:58:32 AM
Reply #32

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2014, 12:58:32 AM »
Peter your taking some words out of context. This wasn't a daily thing that went on or something that was a standard practice with the sleep deprivation I believe it was for people who were under dark forces. I don't know of any members I knew quite a few who EVER did this or were told to do this. If a lot of ex-church members felt so strongly it was a cult or they were doing horrible things by NOW someone would have showed video tapes or audio of what was happening with any "cult like accusations". Instead, you get a lot of ex-members with angst and hearsay then you the outside world fantasizes how horrible the church was. The EBC became collateral damage for Mr. Yoo's sons exploitation of the church. So now it becomes a side show. It's really sad. The funny thing is most of the people who went to the  "shilsup" were well off people so they complain because they weren't in a comfortable position.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 01, 2014, 01:12:56 AM
Reply #33

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2014, 01:12:56 AM »
Peter your taking some words out of context. This wasn't a daily thing that went on or something that was a standard practice with the sleep deprivation I believe it was for people who were under dark forces. I don't know of any members I knew quite a few who EVER did this or were told to do this. If a lot of ex-church members felt so strongly it was a cult or they were doing horrible things by NOW someone would have showed video tapes or audio of what was happening with any "cult like accusations".

I don't know. I find it hard to believe the group punishments described were a one off. Certainly the use of untrained labor wasn't a one off. I think it more likely sleep deprivation and punishments were a regular part of events at that type of camp. And even if it was a one-off, that speaks to the cultic environment of the group at the time. Normal healthy groups just don't suddenly decide that corporal and group punishments and sleep deprivation are good ideas.

If we define being "under dark forces" as psychological problems, sleep deprivation isn't going to help. Sleep deprivation isn't a cure for anything.

The absence of critical English videos and testimonies before the ferry sinking isn't surprising. And in Korea it's been regarded as a cult since it was first created. There was a brief mention of Yoo just a few weeks before the ferry accident in a Korean article about cults active on university campuses. Not to mention the mass suicides in the 80s.  http://www.koreabeat.com/2014/03/28/a-rundown-of-cults-active-on-korean-campuses/#.U9psOfmSySo

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There are three factions in the Salvation Church. They are the Kwon Shin-chan (deceased)-Yoo Byeong-Eon faction, the Lee Yo-han faction, and the Park Ock-soo faction. All of them have been officially classified as cults by the main denominations of Korean churches. These denominations include the Presbyterian Church of Korea (Hapdong) (2008/93rd assembly/cult), the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (1992/77th assembly/cult), the Presbyterian Church of Korea (Koshin) (1991/41st assembly/cult), the Korea Evangelical Holiness Church (1985, 40th assembly/false religion cult) and so forth.

August 01, 2014, 02:29:32 AM
Reply #34

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2014, 02:29:32 AM »
I understand you must form your opinion based on what is presented before you. Just like you say "you don't know". You have taken all the negatives of ex-members and spun it to continue on the beaten path. There isn't any tangible evidence that shows this is the dictionary definition of a "cult". How long has this church been around now? And NOT ONE shred of TANGIBLE evidence of anything that is shown to bear any burden of proof of the accusations made against the church when it comes to their activities.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 01, 2014, 03:23:55 AM
Reply #35

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2014, 03:23:55 AM »
Actually I meant "I don't know" in the "I don't know about that" sense, a polite way to express disagreement.

No tangible evidence of the accusations against Yoo and the church?
I don't know about that^. I would write more, but it's after 3 am here.

August 01, 2014, 04:22:57 AM
Reply #36

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2014, 04:22:57 AM »
I understand you are trying to expose or shed some light on what's been going on which is much appreciated. But, the truth of the matter is you won't find evidence but a bunch of accusations. It's the same riff-raff rinsed and repeated over and over again when it comes to the "church practices" itself.  Hearing about isolated examples as proof isn't reasonable doubt. Somewhere a long the way the "exposing of the church" would have happened by now. The only reason the church is even talked about on this website is what happened on Sewol. Otherwise, you wouldn't care nor would anyone in Korea care about the EBC.

I understand Mr. Yoo and family have had some shameful dealings when it comes to money. But the church members themselves deserve a lot more than what people are accusing them of just going off of 3rd party anonymous statements by some disgruntled ex-members. With this day and age of the internet you would find something about the dealings of shadiness within the church itself but their doesn't appear to be any. Guess who started it? Good ol guberment. Notice how they had the by elections just recently? Coinciding with the capture of the DK? It's all a charade. jmho.

What can you believe about the Death of Mr. Yoo? There are a lot of unknowns in this mystery.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 01, 2014, 05:48:50 AM
Reply #37

Offline Chocobo

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2014, 05:48:50 AM »
I'm not sure if self harm is considered torture. Most (if not all) definitions describe torture as being inflicted on a person by another to gain compliance, force a change of opinion, gain a confession, etc.
Well, in cultic camps, if you fall asleep, they do not beat you or splash water on your face to wake you up like in a Guantanamo's interrogation. They create a schedule that allow you a little time to rest and encourage you to follow that schedule to show your faith or your devotion or your respect of their tradition/rule. If you do not want to admit your lack of faith (in their opinion) and do not want to be kicked out, you have to accept the schedule. It is very much the same situation when you take on an ascetic practice because it is the tradition of the religious group/the religious ritual/festival otherwise it would mean you are unfaithful or disrespect to the tradition/group. Many ascetics adopt the practice under the influence of their religious groups and traditions like that. And this influence is not recent, it is told to them day by day, it is embedded in their culture, sometimes freaky to outsiders: to keep a long hair without washing it for years shows determination, to puncture a needle from cheek to cheek in festival is bravery and honor before the gods, to forsake the use of some parts of the body is greatest devotion, etc. How is it different from an EBC's member who chose to work in the camp even in poor condition believing that it is the proof of his devotion and a way to cultivate his faith?

And in the end you admitted that "Intention is the key here." It sounds like my point about the goal and purpose. So it may be acceptable if the adoption of the practice is taken in a true religious group. But you said it is a different story if the one who convinces the person to adopt the practice is a "criminal cult." So does the practice define the group as criminal cult or the opposite way, the realization of the criminal cult defines the practice as abusive?

And to Judgenot: I agree with you that the EBC members deserve a lot more. But talking about evidence, your conspiracy theory is as ambiguous as (if not more than) the accusations of the media and anonymous statements and disgruntled ex-members. Peter has heard some stories from some (ex)members of the EBC. I count that as some evidences he has. You are now telling a different story as counter-evidence. But you are only one, Peter's evidences are outnumber yours. It is difficult to change his mind unless you can show him more evidences or a striking clear evidence rather than ambiguous theories.

August 01, 2014, 06:14:50 AM
Reply #38

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2014, 06:14:50 AM »
You can't really take what a person says me or any other ex-member is the full truth. This is an anonymous forum its easy for us to say this and that. We all share different polarizing perspectives. It's finding the middle ground in all this. We must consider the fact Mr. Yoo body was found almost 6 weeks before the prosecutor finally admitted to having the body the whole time. Tell me for a person who was considered "the most wanted man in Korea" how in God's green earth does this mix up happen? You can't explain it and no one else can. There is a lot of conjecturing going on by the government on the issue as well. This is a modern day mystery.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 01, 2014, 08:46:11 AM
Reply #39

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2014, 08:46:11 AM »
I understand you are trying to expose or shed some light on what's been going on which is much appreciated. But, the truth of the matter is you won't find evidence but a bunch of accusations. It's the same riff-raff rinsed and repeated over and over again when it comes to the "church practices" itself.  Hearing about isolated examples as proof isn't reasonable doubt. Somewhere a long the way the "exposing of the church" would have happened by now. The only reason the church is even talked about on this website is what happened on Sewol. Otherwise, you wouldn't care nor would anyone in Korea care about the EBC.

I wouldn't say I'm trying expose Yoo as I think that job's been well done by the 100s of recent articles. I do hope to provide a site where more information can be gleamed. Shed light, yes. I do like that phrase. What I noticed early on was that individual articles sometimes had unique pieces of information. Hence, I thought it worthful to quote and highlight such little tidbits of information that weren't popping up across multiple articles.

True the Sewol incident is what instigated all the recent publicity. I don't think anyone is doubting that. Would I care otherwise? Well, I have had this site for almost 11 years now - the first few under a different url - and I've collected information on quite a few Korean and non-Korean cults. Yoo's name was mentioned here before, but I didn't explore further because I didn't know anything about the group. My interest in and awareness of a cult has to start somewhere. In this case it was the ferry incident. In all the other cases, it wasn't a ferry incident.

Exposing the church.. Well Yoo was convicted of fraud in the 1990s, so there's that.
And former members often provide the most accurate details of such groups. And of course his whole family went on the run which I think is a pretty clear sign they were all guilty.

Surely Yoo's financial crimes are rather obvious? He used the church and related-businesses to enrich himself and his family at the expense of members. That push for profits resulted in a poorly trained and poorly paid crew. That desire for profits led to the ferry being overloaded. It all seems rather obvious to me. The cult of greed that Yoo set up resulted in the sinking of the Sewol.

August 01, 2014, 09:02:06 AM
Reply #40

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2014, 09:02:06 AM »
And this influence is not recent, it is told to them day by day, it is embedded in their culture, sometimes freaky to outsiders: to keep a long hair without washing it for years shows determination, to puncture a needle from cheek to cheek in festival is bravery and honor before the gods, to forsake the use of some parts of the body is greatest devotion, etc. How is it different from an EBC's member who chose to work in the camp even in poor condition believing that it is the proof of his devotion and a way to cultivate his faith?

I think it's different when you have a convicted fraudster profiting from them working in those poor conditions. To make it a little clearer: they are being exploited by organised crime.

August 01, 2014, 09:04:35 AM
Reply #41

Offline Peter

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2014, 09:04:35 AM »
You can't really take what a person says me or any other ex-member is the full truth. This is an anonymous forum its easy for us to say this and that.

Similar allegations have been made in the media by people who aren't anonymous. One example: http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2989684

Quote
For Lim Young-sook, a 57-year-old housewife in Seoul, it has brought back extremely bad memories of her own family’s tragic brush with Yoo Byung-eun 17 years ago.

Lim’s late mother lived alone in the 1990s in a spacious apartment in Seoul’s Gwanak District. She was known in the neighborhood for being affluent.

A group of strangers befriended her and started dropping by to chat and give her massages. The chats became more frequent, until the point they convinced the old woman she could be saved if she simply joined their religious group: the Evangelical Baptist Church, better known as Guwonpa, or the Salvation Sect, founded by Yoo and his father-in-law.

One day in 1997, the mother declared to her family that salvation had indeed come to her while listening to a tape of one of Yoo’s sermons.

“Guwonpa believers make a record of the exact time at which they got saved, the moment they felt this enormous wave of emotion,” Lim said. “My mom was not an exception.”

But salvation came at a price. Lim’s mother had been buying from her sect friends large amounts of squalene, a type of dietary supplement made from shark livers, which cost 1.3 million won ($1,270) per box. She bought many costly and shoddy items at inflated prices, some of which remain in her house. Lim thinks her mother spent hundreds of millions of won on them.

Then the mother was offered the opportunity to invest in a “heaven-like silver town with top-notch medical staff and facilities” the church was building. She forked over 560 million won, a big portion of her assets, without telling her sons and daughters.

Before long, Yoo’s Semo Group filed for bankruptcy with more than 300 billion won in debt. The 560 million won promissory given to Lim’s mother was worthless. Devastated by the loss and betrayal, the mother was never the same and eventually passed away in 2008 following a lengthy stay in a hospital.

“The Salvation Sect obviously took aim at my mother, who was old and lonely but with a lot of money,” Lim said. “They also rope in people who aren’t rich. But they have to work for free to the church.”
 

August 01, 2014, 09:36:08 AM
Reply #42

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2014, 09:36:08 AM »
I think there is confusion Peter. I 100% agree what happened with Yoo and family what they did with church members money is corrupt and cowardly to run away. I believe this was a act of God in the sense that what happened to the Yoo family is happening for a reason. What I'm an apologetic about is the church itself within the community of members that encompass the EBC. EBC was lost in allowing a family to control the direction of it. The heart of the church was and is always in the right place when it comes to Christ. That's all I'm saying.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 01, 2014, 09:45:26 AM
Reply #43

Offline judgenotlestyebejudged

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2014, 09:45:26 AM »
You can't really take what a person says me or any other ex-member is the full truth. This is an anonymous forum its easy for us to say this and that.

Similar allegations have been made in the media by people who aren't anonymous. One example: http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2989684

Quote
For Lim Young-sook, a 57-year-old housewife in Seoul, it has brought back extremely bad memories of her own family’s tragic brush with Yoo Byung-eun 17 years ago.

Lim’s late mother lived alone in the 1990s in a spacious apartment in Seoul’s Gwanak District. She was known in the neighborhood for being affluent.

A group of strangers befriended her and started dropping by to chat and give her massages. The chats became more frequent, until the point they convinced the old woman she could be saved if she simply joined their religious group: the Evangelical Baptist Church, better known as Guwonpa, or the Salvation Sect, founded by Yoo and his father-in-law.

One day in 1997, the mother declared to her family that salvation had indeed come to her while listening to a tape of one of Yoo’s sermons.

“Guwonpa believers make a record of the exact time at which they got saved, the moment they felt this enormous wave of emotion,” Lim said. “My mom was not an exception.”

But salvation came at a price. Lim’s mother had been buying from her sect friends large amounts of squalene, a type of dietary supplement made from shark livers, which cost 1.3 million won ($1,270) per box. She bought many costly and shoddy items at inflated prices, some of which remain in her house. Lim thinks her mother spent hundreds of millions of won on them.

Then the mother was offered the opportunity to invest in a “heaven-like silver town with top-notch medical staff and facilities” the church was building. She forked over 560 million won, a big portion of her assets, without telling her sons and daughters.

Before long, Yoo’s Semo Group filed for bankruptcy with more than 300 billion won in debt. The 560 million won promissory given to Lim’s mother was worthless. Devastated by the loss and betrayal, the mother was never the same and eventually passed away in 2008 following a lengthy stay in a hospital.

“The Salvation Sect obviously took aim at my mother, who was old and lonely but with a lot of money,” Lim said. “They also rope in people who aren’t rich. But they have to work for free to the church.”
 

1200.00 box of squalene? I find it hard to believe in the states I think if I remember correctly it cost 150-200. That would be really criminal if true and not exaggerated.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

August 02, 2014, 07:40:27 AM
Reply #44

Offline oopark

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Re: I use to attend this church
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2014, 07:40:27 AM »
Hi, it's Oscar.

There were a lot of interesting stories going on from our ex-EBC members so I decided to clear up a few things here… There's a lot of misinformation, I won't touch them all, but I'll just comment on a few when I find time.

First, the relation between the church and businesses. There is a very strong misconception here.. the idea that these church-related companies are all operated by "the church" and "Mr. Yoo". This is not true. It will differ by company but there are many companies where most of the employees are not church members. It was the same for Samwoo and Semo 20-30 years ago.. the majority of employees were non-church people. Management, perhaps is done mostly by church members but does that mean "the church" is doing the management? Do they ask "the church" or "Mr. Yoo" when making decisions at work really? The person who makes the decision to overload... does he ask "the church" or "Mr. Yoo"? Do you think the church or Mr. Yoo ordered them to overload so that they can make more money as the prosecutors claimed? What makes you think the church is behind everything and has to be responsible?

Marine safety is probably the same for any other ferry company in Korea. What makes you think Chonghaejin is any worse or any better? If overloading is a standard in the industry and everybody overloads, does the fundamental problem stem from the ferry company? Don't you think the guys who enforce it have problems? Think of the stop signs in Korea... they are useless and nobody in Korea bothers to stop at a red stop sign. In the States, you don't do that because cops are hiding somewhere to fine you. Is that the driver's problem ignoring the stop sign in Korea? You could say yes but the reason they don't stop, nor even bother to check, is because there are no cops enforcing it. Probably same with the ship overloading.

Also, church money going into these companies is a very strong misconception, too. Church money is church money.. you make a donation to a 501c3 church  organization and receive a tax deductible receipt. It is the same in Korea. This church money cannot be funneled into a legally independent for-profit business or corporation. That would be a direct act of embezzlement (public funds going into a private corporation) and tax evasion. If this happened, church officers would be charged and jailed, no questions asked. Which church officer has ever been jailed for church funds embezzlement? If you think, believe and have proof church funds were used this way, go ahead and sue the church... you should.

Now about church members investing in these companies……  If you see someone investing blindly or brainwashed, I think you should feel free to go stop them from doing so. By the way, realistically speaking, how many around you ever invested in a church-related company? I've rarely seen members making investments, less donating into any church-related company, I can't even readily recall 5 church members, starting from family and friends, around me who did so. Most of you all claimed church members gave money blindly to companies, that these companies are using money from church members.. I'm a pretty strong member as you can see.. I've made donations to the church for sure, but I never gave my money to any church-related company. Is purchasing books and health products blindly giving money? There could be some people who invested in Korea, maybe a few overseas but in reality, the majority of members never gave nor invested funds to these church related companies.

One thing I find disturbing about all this company talk is that you guys know practically nothing about the companies in Korea. Their corporate structure, how many employees they have, their core businesses, their funds amount or flow, yet you make conclusions based on your personal church experience in the US. Your company facts are guesses at its very best. It is even difficult for a person like me, who has been in Korea and in the church long enough, to explain in any detail how the companies run. I'm sorry but I will have to disregard any of your comments on those Korean companies, and especially on the ferry company. If you do know something, please explain about it in detail. I think it'd be very interesting to hear about it.

There are several church-related companies making good profits in Korea. Unfortunately, when church-related businesses spend a lot, people have a very easy tendency to think that it is church money. Sorry, it's not. Exhibitions in Europe are church money? Now when did we ever collect funds for Mr. Yoo's exhibitions? The vast amount of donations in the States were for church properties nearby.. the places where church people gather together. When exactly did those funds go to the Yoo family? Give me one concrete example.


Second, the conference preparation work (수양회 준비 작업, 또는 실습, I'll just call it Shilsup.)

First of all, Shilsup is a pure volunteer event, for the preparations of the week long Bible Study Conference every summer. There is no recruitment for this but I am sure you were unwillingly pushed by your parents to participate as the main reason for sending you to Korea. I participated 3 years straight.

The preparation team is usually large, over 100 people. To work efficiently, there has to be group organization and management so there is definitely some sort of group control. However, it isn't as bad as you claim it is, as for US born and raised members, I'm sure it felt pretty tough on you all. The reason it has that sort of control is because the Shilsup leaders are normally fresh out of their mandatory army service. They tend to run it like the army. This is where the group punishments (not sure if it is worthy to call as "a punishment") comes from. It is not a church thing, because there is nothing such as group punishment in our church, but more on the "team leaders" who are in charge for that year.

If you think that Shilsup is bizarre and extreme, you should definitely look into the reality of the Korean army much more and dig into all the illegal and inhumane treatments there… you'll find stuff wwaaaay much more interesting than what you'll find in our church.  For the 24 months I stayed in the army, I've experienced physical attacks (punching and kicking), physical abuse (tried group 대가리박기 (head on floor) before? it's standing on your bear head and 2 feet with your 2 hands behind your back.. it's kinda okay on grass but gravel and concrete is pretty bad even for 1 minute.. 3-5 minutes you'll be sweating and by 10 people will collapse to be kicked at), verbal/mental abuse, sexual abuse, sexual humiliation, etc, etc. Oh, there's always a lack of sleep there, too. Did I mention food with old ingredients made by cooks who have never cooked before their whole life? Peter, since you dig so well into corruption, you should definitely take a look into Korean army life... you'll find things far more shocking like the soldier who died a few days ago due to physical abuse from teammates.


Sorry for straying aside, but I wanted to make it clear that group training, if any, is more of a personality of the group leader and is usually jumping jacks together, maybe some push-ups and squat-walking of physical exercise. It is for group members to be focused and stay attentive - as a group - to prevent accidents from happening.

By the way, in regards to accidents, I have seen some minor ones but nothing severe so far. About a kid almost cutting off his finger, I'm not sure if you can call university students "kids" but I'm sure they were old enough to handle a power tool. Shilsup people handling heavy machinery.. I don't remember anyone handling serious stuff but I'm sure some people would be interested in trying it out. If they were not comfortable, they shouldn't be doing it. Safety in Korea, in general, is pretty lax from a US point of view. But nowadays, we do not even set up our tents anymore. I'm not sure how many years they've been doing it but it is all out-sourced in Korea.

I've also heard some easy going team leaders gave people too much freedom and received complaints that it did not feel like doing Shilsup at all so some people like it one way or the other. Personally, from my experience, I did not like the way it was run the first 2 years I was there. Our team leaders were picky and tough, kept a tight schedule which I did not like much. My third year was better since I was older than most participants. Overall, I do not regret the experience and I am positive I will send my kids when they are old enough. 


Oh, and for those "shitty products".. well, some people will praise and be addicted to Coke and then there will be others who think it as poison so I won't be judgmental about your opinion, but one recommendation I would like to make is, if you, your children or loved ones ever get a severe burn, either from fire or by accidentally drinking highly acidic chemicals, do remember SEMO SQUALENE. It comes in larger capsules and even bottles to apply generously. It will sooth your burnt skin/bruises and heal it faster with far less or even no scars. If you burn your throat, the doctors can do nothing. Squalene will help. It seems pricey, but for the quality, I think it's worth the price. (btw, one huge box is around $900-$1,200 in Korea, which consists of 8 regular smaller boxes, if you are a frequent consumer, there are occasional discounts for those in special needs). PM me if you are in an emergency like that and don't know where to find it. I'll send you a small box amount, free of charge.

There were a bunch of other stuff to mention, but maybe later.. I'm still quite amused how Peter still has trouble believing about the 2.7 million photos taken. The original content of Ahae.com is back and did not "disappear" as you had proudly guessed, Peter. Take a look at the samples there and search hard for photos that seem off from the window view there. The window view is very dull, like any dull view of the Korean countryside. To get photos from a window view like that, IMHO, is something to consider. The feat is probably unprecedented in photography history. There should be at least some value in it, don't you think? The photos, at best, cannot technically compete with photos that are heavily HDR'ed, tweaked or photoshopped, but that is what makes it stand out in this world of staged and heavily manipulated photos.

His description on Ahae.com as an inventor, entrepreneur, philanthropist, environmental activist, martial artist, painter, sculptor, poet, and photographer, is still there, all standing strong. He never called himself or gave himself those titles nor is it what brainwashed people think he is…  it is just a description of who he is and what he has done… nothing more, nothing less. Which title do you think does not fit his description or is exaggerated? It's quite amazing how twisted the media portrays him and how twisted people think of it.

If you do not believe my words that is fine. But instead of believing the news and the media, believe yourself. Check the facts for yourself one by one and verify those facts in person, by yourself. After that, it is still not too late to make a conclusion who and what stands truthful.

I would like to present 3 links by a former Editor-in-Chief for Donga (one of the 3 major publications in Korea) who wrote articles on O-dae-yang and Mr. Yoo's conviction of fraud 20 years ago. He still stands by his report he wrote back then (sorry they are in Korean.. will provide English translations when available):

1. Odaeyang and Yoo Byung-Eun http://blog.donga.com/milhoon/archives/4022
2. Yoo Byung-Eun - Is He That Evil? http://blog.donga.com/milhoon/archives/4059 (Edgar-since you know some Korean, you should definitely read this while I'm still looking into the case, especially the ridiculous testimonies the court used to convict him)
3. Yoo Byung-Eun - He Was a Sacrificial Lamb (Scapegoat) http://blog.donga.com/milhoon/archives/4081

As time passes by, more truthful articles will start to come out. Please keep your eyes open and attentive as much as you are all right now.

Btw, there's a picture of his "super luxurious and extravagent" meeting room everyone on the news was talking about. Mis-matching furniture, no fancy wall moldings, who mixes fluorescent and incandescent lights together?.. or maybe the large screen TV set on a table is luxurious? Maybe the kitchen island makes the meeting room stand out? What's so luxurious and special enough to make it on the news?