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General Discussion / Re: Violence Against Women in Korea
« Last post by Peter on August 18, 2017, 06:40:55 AM »
Aug. 17: 8 in 10 Korean Men Admit Abuse of Girlfriend (The Korea Herald)

Aug. 18: Man Jailed for Bashing 'Hairy' Woman (The Korea Time)
General Discussion / Re: Ask me Anything. (AMA) : I am a former member of 4 years.
« Last post by Peter on August 13, 2017, 05:20:49 AM »
Another question. Did you ever see these videos of "trips" to heaven and hell undertaken by members while you were involved? I was surprised to learn from one former member that she saw them pretty early on in her involvement. I had assumed such material would be reserved until the member had been in longer and consequently at a deeper level. Was there ever any skepticism expressed by members that you know of?

General Discussion / Re: Ask me Anything. (AMA) : I am a former member of 4 years.
« Last post by Peter on August 13, 2017, 05:16:50 AM »
Jung did not praise Hitler, at least not directly. Maybe he did in one particular sermon but I can vaguely and barely recollect. 
There is however a bible lesson, part of Jung's deck called Time, Times and half a time.

It taught that the Jews gone through what they gone through because they rejected and persecuted Jesus as their Messiah when they were supposed to receive him when he came amongst people from Mary. How Jesus came riding on the clouds (parable for coming amongst people)

In the same way, the people in this time period have rejected Jung. Notice that everything is linked to Jung at the end.

Thanks for that. The Hitler bit comes from at least one speech given in 1999. I had the whole speech on my site and received a copyright complaint from JMS, so the material is certainly authentic. Here's the relevant quote as translated by two of America's most senior members:

That is why Hitler killed 6 million Jews in the gas chamber and rung oil from them. If you don't think that was a great thing, you have nothing to do with me or with salvation. Jeong Myeong-seok. December 13, 1998.

I have the link somewhere, but a translation done by an English speaking Exodus member is almost exactly the same - certainly the sentiment is the same. Both translations are in agreement, so there should be no doubt as to what Jeong meant.  I also saw the same idea expressed in the May 24, 2012 "revelation" from heaven entitled The Curse Upon The Kennedys:
... the Lord said, “I did it. I did it.” He said, “Because they hurt Me and the people who followed Me, I did it through Hitler. I crushed them."

Several former members and even a couple of current members have confirmed they heard the same. He may not have said it that often, but it has certainly been expressed a few times, as have members more recently through their "revelations" from heaven that replaced Jeong's own sermons after his arrest.
Daesun Jinrihoe / Re: The Street Approach....
« Last post by Peter on August 08, 2017, 08:21:08 AM »
Probably the largest temple in Seoul, but no tourists are allowed inside. That's because it was built by Daesun Jinrihoe (대순진리회) which is actually kind of a cult or 'new religious movement' founded in Korea in 1969 by Park Han-gyeong. The main hall can be seen from a very far way away. - Timothy Holm on Instagram (photo in link)
Daesun Jinrihoe / Can You Tell Me How To Get ... How To Get To Gangnam Street?
« Last post by Peter on August 07, 2017, 07:55:08 PM »
Daesun Jinrihoe has been mentioned quite often in discussions on Facebook, Reddit, and Youtube stemming from accounts by foreigners in Korea of being approached on the street and asked to attend a ceremony which invariably ends with a request for money and/or a further commitment. Last year, there were numerous accounts of foreigners being approached by Koreans who initially asked directions to some well-known landmark or area. They all soon forget that they were going to that well-known landmark and suddenly invited the foreigners to a traditional ceremony.

The similarity of the accounts suggested one group was behind this campaign. I had no idea which, but one name kept popping up, the previously mentioned: Daesun Jinrihoe. There is more info here on the history of the group. This looks better: Taesunchillihoe: Factors in the Rapid Rise of a Korean New Religion (1999)

I actually attended a conference on New Religious Movements that was hosted by Daesun Jinrihoe at their univeristy, Daejin University. I gave a presentation there about the groups my site concerns: JMS, Shinchonji, Jungshim, and Yoo Byung-eun's cult. My experience of Daesun Jinrihoe and of the members I met was wholly positive. Attendees were given a tour of one of their main temples and a little taste of the religion. While religion is not my thing, there was nothing about the event that got my cult senses tingling. The previous day had been spent on a similiar tour of The Moonies HQ, and that was nothing but bat-shit crazy from start to finish, and "bat-shit crazy" was a term used by one of the academics attending the conference as we got back on the bus.

Side note: CESNUR, the co-hosting organisation has a reputation of being particularly soft on cults, but that's a story for another day. On the whole though, I thoroughly enjoyed my time at the conference and met some really interesting people. One Australian professor had heard of me and thanked me for helping to expose the JMS cult. There are some stories to tell from that conference that I hope to tell one day. Nothing earth-shattering at all; just a few little anecdotes.

So when the name Daesun Jinrihoe first came up in relation to these accounts, I was honestly a little surprised in a "oh-that's-those-nice-guys-from-the-conference" kind of way. Having said that, I had heard bits and pieces before that suggested the group had a darker side.

Here then are a few of those accounts (more in the comments under each link) that have been attributed to the group. There are more on closed Facebook groups. Some of those I've saved for my own benefit, but I'll not share those as they were posted on closed pages. I might put a call out for similiar accounts. There really are quite a few of them.

August 1, 2017: A Cult Tried to Hound Me In (exchange student in Seoul) (Reddit)

June 11, 2017: Two Girls Approached Me and Asked if I was Interested in Korean Culture. (Facebook - Public Group)

May 19, 2017:

March 13, 2017: That Time I Accidentally Joined a Cult

Feb. 26, 2017:

Oct. 20, 2016: Am I Getting into a Korean Cult??? (Reddit)

Jan 28, 2013: Does Somebody Know What the Religious order Daesoon Jinrihoe is & Can Explain it to me? (Reddit)
Thank you very much for taking the time to do that. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into that.

Claim 7: "Peter Daley himself has almost no experiences in Providence church. All his information is based on unreliable sources, giving him no credibility despite the video's false depiction of him as an expert of cults"

A huge bulk of Peter's sources came from ex-members in his archive. Why are they then labeled as unreliable by this video @ the 4:45 minute when they also came from accounts of Providence members?

Actually, regarding my own sources, a major source is Jeong himself. I have well over 100 hours of audio from Jeong's sermons while he was a fugitive and "revelations" from heaven distributed after his arrest. JMS members have confirmed the material I have is authentic by filing copyright complaints against me over such material, including the Hitler praising material. JMS's real problem with me isn't that I am ignorant of the group, but rather the opposite: I know too much about them. It is a group that has many layers of secrecy, and having their secrets available outside their control is a situation the leadership would like to "rectify". Here's an example quote from a sermon given by Jeong on February 11, 2007 and distributed to members via a password-protected site in the form of an audio recording featuring Jeong's voice and a translation provided by JMS's American leader. He would be arrested a few months later, and he seems to be feeling the pressure as he claims he had sent members out to eradicate his critics.

Those people constantly went around saying bad things about me in other countries. They've done horrible things. These are cruel people. Everywhere I went. So I decided I cannot listen...continue to do this. So I sent some people out to look for them. Just wait until we catch them. They're going to be crushed down to their bones if we catch them. Understand? So I realized that I shouldn't love my enemies, that I should eradicate them.

I also do not like the label "expert", but to suggest I have no credibility when it comes to my knowledge and experience of JMS is simply absurd. And I think I have a pretty good understanding of cults in general gained from talking to former and current members of various cults, reading dozens of books and hundreds of articles on the subject, reading cult-produced material, and attending events where possible.

I'll respond a little later to your questions about Liz and her visit to Jeong in jail. I have spoken to her about it, and also to another former member who also visited Jeong in jail as part of group of several female members accompanied by a senior member.
I do not want to delve into the other parts of the video as its getting late here.

I welcome opinions from former or even existing members.

I feel that in Providence, there are certain levels of hierarchies or groups, which might be unknownst to the regular member.

A certain group has no idea about the inner politics of Providence, they believe strongly in the word preached by SSN which sounds logical most of the time but not always. Some people who testify might not know about the gray area of Providence as they only see the sugar coated aspect of it.

I did not leave because of the sexual accusations because I knew of it towards the end of my bible lessons.
I left because of the inconsistencies in SSN's teachings.

The following is an extremely well written testimony by an ex-member that I would recommend reading. I agree fully with this and it seems to show consistency in Providence's workings and culture.

Especially "As Providence as become divided into three parts there are three kinds of people in Providence right now...."
When we were members of Providence, we were most definitely eager, willing and wanting to meet SSN. No one was coerced.

I would support that Liz was most certainly willing as well, at that time.

We need some clarity on certain ambiguities. Did Liz meet SSN in prison 1 on 1 with another translator? Did they visit him face to face as a group? I highly doubt a group visit consisting of members from various nations would be feasible in a prison setting.

If Liz did meet SSN 1 on 1 with another translator, the possibility that SSN made those remarks is not unfounded if the translator was in cahoots with SSN. 
Claim 7: "Peter Daley himself has almost no experiences in Providence church. All his information is based on unreliable sources, giving him no credibility despite the video's false depiction of him as an expert of cults"

The information we had about SSN were also based on sources such as the experiences and accounts of older members who interacted with SSN. Does this render those accounts to be unreliable with no credibility too? Most members especially those overseas had no interaction with SSN except a handful who perhaps met him once or twice during SSN's missionary trips around the globe.

A huge bulk of Peter's sources came from ex-members in his archive. Why are they then labeled as unreliable by this video @ the 4:45 minute when they also came from accounts of Providence members?
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