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Messages - judgenotlestyebejudged

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INCHEON, Aug. 12 (Yonhap) -- Prosecutors said Tuesday that they have decided not to indict the late shipping tycoon accused of a host of crimes that they believe contributed to April's ferry disaster.

Yoo Byung-eun, a 73-year-old billionaire whose family owns Sewol operator Chonghaejin Marine Co., faced various corruption charges, including embezzlement, breach of trust and tax evasion, prosecutors said.

Releasing an interim outcome of their 110-day-long probe, investigators at the Incheon District Prosecutors' Office in the western port city of Incheon said that they have concluded that there is no legal basis to indict Yoo.

"We made the decision that there is no arraignment right as it is confirmed that Yoo had died," said an investigator close to the investigation.

The badly decomposed body of Yoo, who was the target of a massive manhunt over alleged corruption since the ferry sank off the country's southwestern coast in mid-April, was found in the southern part of the country on June 12.

Prosecutors allege that not only had Yoo embezzled 129.1 billion won (US$125 million) from Chonghaejin Marine and evaded 15.9 billion won worth of gift taxes, but also received 15 million won per month from the ferry operator as consulting fees.

The prosecution office said it has also indicted Yoo Dae-kyun, Yoo's eldest son, on charges of misappropriating about 7.3 billion won from the ferry operator and its six other affiliates.

Prosecutors further allege that the younger Yoo, who was apprehended on July 25, pocketed 3.5 billion won from Chonghaejin Marine.

A total of 34 people, including Yoo's family members and closest aides, have been indicted for various charges in connection with the ferry disaster, prosecutors said.

The Sewol ferry capsized off southwestern South Korea on April 16 after making a sharp turn. So far, 294 people, mostly high school students, have been found dead, with 10 missing and presumed dead.

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http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2014/08/12/32/0302000000AEN20140812006400315F.html


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This video gives some insight into what happened during the time the ship went down and how the government responded. The initial response from the korean government was "can we get a video" over and over again of when the ferry started to capsize. It's worth the 40 minute watch.

This is a documentary about South Korea’s Sewol ferry disaster with English subtitles.

72 hours after the sinking of the Sewol ferry on April 16, 2014. What did the South Korean government do during this period called ‘Golden Tme’ to rescue lives?

In order to answer such question, the documentary, “Golden Time for Sewol Ferry – There was no state,” was made by Newstapa based on videos that frankly recorded the disaster site and testimonies that have not been disclosed.

The documentary, produced in cooperation with the Sewol Ferry Victims’ Families Committee and a group of independent producers who record the truth about the ferry disaster, tries to show how more than 300 lives could not be rescued and therefore were lost.

And it questions if the incompetent, irresponsible attitude of the government that was shown during the “Golden Time” has changed when it comes to investigating the ferry disaster.

It also raises the need for a special law that supplements the limitations of the existing system as investigations into the ferry disaster have not produced proper outcomes after 100 days have passed since the accident.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1du2pG_8tk#t=104

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That would be Yoo in the 1990s^.
JudgeNot, I would be happy to answer your question but I’m afraid I don’t know anything about the retirement home plans you mentioned. Can you provide more details? I can possibly ask around but not sure how long this would take. Whether or not that article is an accurate account, it’s an unfortunate thing to have such articles related to us posted in the news like that.

However, I would like to point out a few things. Why is it that you think the funds that lady gave were donations? The article says it was an investment in a building "the church" was building but I don't think you can "invest" in a church for a personal return. If it was a pure donation, I don't think it would be appropriate to expect to have it returned, either. I do not know how funds were raised for that project, but I am sure if it was a plan for a retirement home or complex, that lady probably invested her funds into the company organizing it for her own benefits.

I don't know if announcements were made like that in church, but let's say it was... is the church supposed to be responsible for that? Let's say there was an announcement for an English camp during a meeting. A kid applied and got hurt while participating in the camp. Is that the church’s responsibility even though the church had nothing to do with the camp itself? Should they be liable when all that took place was an introduction? Although church members may have been involved, please do not blame it on the church for something the church has no control over. Church members make many mistakes as human beings and there are also people (both amongst and not amongst church members) with not-so-good intentions as in any other group of humans.

If a church-related company did not pay someone back for money they borrowed or for money received in return for investment, I think they should be completely responsible for any and all mismanagement of that funds. They should be held accountable according to the laws laid out by the country they are doing business in. However, I do not think that responsibility should go beyond the scope of that company unless there is a valid reason for it to be so. Asking the church or perhaps Mr. Yoo to be responsible just does not seem appropriate nor logical to me. I guess it is an easy tendency for people to think that way if things do not go the way they want or had intended. In the case of the retirement home do you have specific details on the method of raising funds, who was involved, exactly what happened in the end? Please share as many details as possible. Without specific details and evidence- like many things in a forum such as this- it just ends up in conjecture.

If you are truly concerned about the church's responsibility and accountability, whether it is large or small, talk to the people who are responsible for that concern and ask and suggest what can be done to make it better. If you had openly raised concerns before, for example, in the middle of a fund raise for a new church property, it is very likely that your concerns would have been allayed at that time (unless, perhaps it is severe enough to cancel the project) while the fund raising is actively running to achieve that goal.

Still, if you have concerns, take it to someone directly responsible and get answers for all your questions. Have you done this before or were you just talking along with other like-minded people who do not know the exact details of the project? I am a person who tends to challenge and question a lot myself, but I have not encountered anything major enough to disapprove an important church decision - I cannot explain about all company decisions though, as I am not involved with any, but still, I have always been willing to point out anything that might be a concern.

I don’t expect everyone to be 100% in approval of everything that is done so if you do not think it is in your best interests, you have all the freedom you have not to participate in it. You also have the freedom to oppose it and voice it. You know we do not kick people out or remove members away from us just because you had or have an opposite voice or view. If you have a valid concern, please do voice it and get it cleared. Unfortunately, some people seem to find it more interesting talking in the back with their own conclusions based on guesses and small bits or unconfirmed information - defying the purpose of the fellowship that we share.

Hope this helps.


Mr. Park,

I remember when a korean moim missionary came to the state I live in back in 2003 or 2004 . He was talking about how the people should donate money and he started singing hymns which was totally off base with what the church normally does. This was at the end of his stay he did this he passed around the collection plate. I ripped the local moim leadership how this wasn't biblical. They did apologize and state it wouldn't happen again. I mentioned these types of things as well as why HK was dressed in such expensive clothes, why him and his crew were driving around in range rovers at highland springs. I was brushed off like "my spirit" wasn't right. How could they judge my personal spiritual well being when I'm just pointing out obvious flaws that outsiders/insiders could take as not biblical. The thing about the "medical center" is definitely out there in some archived footage. Because our local moim watched a freaking dvd on it like it was a infomercial. This was around 2006-2007. THE MOIM WAS ADVERTISING TO MEMBERS TO BUY INTO THIS. So all the members who did and lost money why weren't they paid back? That's what upsets me about Mr. Yoo and his family. They enrich themselves and live a life of luxury while the moim suffers for their sins. He was a coward. He should have faced the government beast if he really was doing God's will he would have came out ok in the end or would have died a good christian soldier. Now he's just getting pissed on by everyone and anyone because he made a very crucial mistake of not turning himself in. Same with HK. It's unbelievable the charade the church goes through to please the Yoo family.

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Oscar, what is the official church stance on people who donated money to build that mega health center retirement home or whatever it was with church money then it went bankrupt? I remember watching after a sermon a infomercial for this and that was my boiling point to exit the moim. Why weren't the people who funded this paid back the money they lost with the "newly successful businesses" which I assume paid for Yoo's greasing of the french museum?

That's what drives me mad. Is there no ACCOUNTABILITY when it comes to the failures of the past? The Yoo family, semo, or whoever it was should be paying back the people who they siphoned money off of. The bankruptcy protected the EBC funded companies with reorganization and defaulting on their promissary notes to church members. I think a lot of people would be looking at the church with a more positive perspective if the members who funded a lot of projects were paid back instead of having the excuse of the bankruptcy protection.

Failing to consider the people of the moim who lost their money is SHAMEFUL AND DISRESPECTFUL. The actions speak louder than any words. I believe the reason for this judgement of what is playing out lies soley with the EBC people running the businesses and they were unfortunately very important church members who are giving the collective name of the EBC a horrible reputation. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

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Watchout, conspiracy theorists!
July 31: Police to look into false Internet rumors about Sewol owner's death
Quote
Police said Thursday they will investigate false Internet rumors about the death of a business tycoon who owned the Sewol ferry that sank in southern waters in April.

The state forensic lab has confirmed that a body found on June 12 at a plum farm on the south coast is that of Yoo Byung-eun after conducting DNA and other tests, but it has failed to determine the cause of his death.

Some netizens claim that the body belongs to another person, while others insist that Yoo's X-ray pictures were manipulated.

"We're going to embark on an internal probe into false Internet postings as groundless rumors about the tycoon's death are spreading, causing social confusion," the National Police Agency said.

Police said they will track down those who ill-purposely and repeatedly uploaded such postings and investigate them on defamation charges. ...

lol defamation? This is like a SLAPP lawsuit when it comes to stock trading. There is so many holes in their story. Every time they pour water to quench the fire the water drains through the holes and the fire will come back. jmo

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You can't really take what a person says me or any other ex-member is the full truth. This is an anonymous forum its easy for us to say this and that.

Similar allegations have been made in the media by people who aren't anonymous. One example: http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2989684

Quote
For Lim Young-sook, a 57-year-old housewife in Seoul, it has brought back extremely bad memories of her own family’s tragic brush with Yoo Byung-eun 17 years ago.

Lim’s late mother lived alone in the 1990s in a spacious apartment in Seoul’s Gwanak District. She was known in the neighborhood for being affluent.

A group of strangers befriended her and started dropping by to chat and give her massages. The chats became more frequent, until the point they convinced the old woman she could be saved if she simply joined their religious group: the Evangelical Baptist Church, better known as Guwonpa, or the Salvation Sect, founded by Yoo and his father-in-law.

One day in 1997, the mother declared to her family that salvation had indeed come to her while listening to a tape of one of Yoo’s sermons.

“Guwonpa believers make a record of the exact time at which they got saved, the moment they felt this enormous wave of emotion,” Lim said. “My mom was not an exception.”

But salvation came at a price. Lim’s mother had been buying from her sect friends large amounts of squalene, a type of dietary supplement made from shark livers, which cost 1.3 million won ($1,270) per box. She bought many costly and shoddy items at inflated prices, some of which remain in her house. Lim thinks her mother spent hundreds of millions of won on them.

Then the mother was offered the opportunity to invest in a “heaven-like silver town with top-notch medical staff and facilities” the church was building. She forked over 560 million won, a big portion of her assets, without telling her sons and daughters.

Before long, Yoo’s Semo Group filed for bankruptcy with more than 300 billion won in debt. The 560 million won promissory given to Lim’s mother was worthless. Devastated by the loss and betrayal, the mother was never the same and eventually passed away in 2008 following a lengthy stay in a hospital.

“The Salvation Sect obviously took aim at my mother, who was old and lonely but with a lot of money,” Lim said. “They also rope in people who aren’t rich. But they have to work for free to the church.”
 

1200.00 box of squalene? I find it hard to believe in the states I think if I remember correctly it cost 150-200. That would be really criminal if true and not exaggerated.

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I think there is confusion Peter. I 100% agree what happened with Yoo and family what they did with church members money is corrupt and cowardly to run away. I believe this was a act of God in the sense that what happened to the Yoo family is happening for a reason. What I'm an apologetic about is the church itself within the community of members that encompass the EBC. EBC was lost in allowing a family to control the direction of it. The heart of the church was and is always in the right place when it comes to Christ. That's all I'm saying.

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You can't really take what a person says me or any other ex-member is the full truth. This is an anonymous forum its easy for us to say this and that. We all share different polarizing perspectives. It's finding the middle ground in all this. We must consider the fact Mr. Yoo body was found almost 6 weeks before the prosecutor finally admitted to having the body the whole time. Tell me for a person who was considered "the most wanted man in Korea" how in God's green earth does this mix up happen? You can't explain it and no one else can. There is a lot of conjecturing going on by the government on the issue as well. This is a modern day mystery.

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I understand you are trying to expose or shed some light on what's been going on which is much appreciated. But, the truth of the matter is you won't find evidence but a bunch of accusations. It's the same riff-raff rinsed and repeated over and over again when it comes to the "church practices" itself.  Hearing about isolated examples as proof isn't reasonable doubt. Somewhere a long the way the "exposing of the church" would have happened by now. The only reason the church is even talked about on this website is what happened on Sewol. Otherwise, you wouldn't care nor would anyone in Korea care about the EBC.

I understand Mr. Yoo and family have had some shameful dealings when it comes to money. But the church members themselves deserve a lot more than what people are accusing them of just going off of 3rd party anonymous statements by some disgruntled ex-members. With this day and age of the internet you would find something about the dealings of shadiness within the church itself but their doesn't appear to be any. Guess who started it? Good ol guberment. Notice how they had the by elections just recently? Coinciding with the capture of the DK? It's all a charade. jmho.

What can you believe about the Death of Mr. Yoo? There are a lot of unknowns in this mystery.

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I understand you must form your opinion based on what is presented before you. Just like you say "you don't know". You have taken all the negatives of ex-members and spun it to continue on the beaten path. There isn't any tangible evidence that shows this is the dictionary definition of a "cult". How long has this church been around now? And NOT ONE shred of TANGIBLE evidence of anything that is shown to bear any burden of proof of the accusations made against the church when it comes to their activities.

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Peter your taking some words out of context. This wasn't a daily thing that went on or something that was a standard practice with the sleep deprivation I believe it was for people who were under dark forces. I don't know of any members I knew quite a few who EVER did this or were told to do this. If a lot of ex-church members felt so strongly it was a cult or they were doing horrible things by NOW someone would have showed video tapes or audio of what was happening with any "cult like accusations". Instead, you get a lot of ex-members with angst and hearsay then you the outside world fantasizes how horrible the church was. The EBC became collateral damage for Mr. Yoo's sons exploitation of the church. So now it becomes a side show. It's really sad. The funny thing is most of the people who went to the  "shilsup" were well off people so they complain because they weren't in a comfortable position.

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Thank you peter! You do a great job in digging up some information. That's why I will stay on this board for a while. ;)

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And thank you Johnny for sharing your experiences. The camps you described seem to be pretty standard practise for a lot of these Korean groups. They bring in members from overseas and surround them in the cult's bubble almost 24/7 for the duration of their stay.


When I went to Korea the few times I went. I never experienced the "shilsup work camp" it is up to you if you want to partake. It wasn't forced. I was college age at the time. It's all relative to the person DOING IT OR NOT. You have a choice. I chose not to because of the similar things I heard Johnny but I wasn't required or chastised for not participating. I used my free will.

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It wasn't a charity per se. A lot of church members worked here full time.

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